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 Post subject: Women and sex
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Gatekeepers of sex

The outdated idea of chastity as a feminine virtue is making a most unwelcome comeback

By Zoe Williams / The Guardian

It is very easy to persuade people that "slag" is not an acceptable insult to level at a woman. "You wouldn't say that to a man," you could point out. Even though it is pretty much a cross-gender term these days, and one might often hear a man described as a right slapper, that still seems to hold. There ought to be a flipside to this -- we ought, in the year 2007, to have stopped talking about chastity as a feminine virtue. We ought to have stopped holding women up as the gatekeepers to sex, who get to be in charge because they don't enjoy it. We ought to have stopped perseverating on how men want it with anyone, any which way, where women only want it with "kind, funny, generous men".

Yet the curve is going in the opposite direction: in America, commentators (I suppose they're called) have long been haranguing adult and teenage females about the boon of chastity. We are not without our own fuglewomen -- Kate Taylor has just published Not Tonight, Mr Right, a book instructing adult women how to conduct themselves in the world of sex.

Taylor follows writers from Sylvia Ann Hewlett (academic and fervid campaigner against female emancipation) to Dawn Eden (one-time groupie, born-again virgin). They all used to "buy the feminist line"; they used to "believe that women could be free", and now they've realised that true freedom is in keeping an aspirin between the knees. Ah, the wisdom of grandmas.

The tips are all the same. Here is one of Taylor's: "Believing women can have sex as light and breezily as men is rubbish, too. For one thing, men like to have more sexual partners than women." And here, in the same vein, is one of Eden's: "Whatever Germaine Greer and her ilk may say, I've tried their philosophy -- that a woman can shag like a man -- and it doesn't work. We're not built like that. Women are built for bonding. We are vessels and we seek to be filled."

They always drag Greer into it, as though she offered up a shoddy philosophy that didn't hold water, and these "make him beg" philosophers are actually offering something more solid.

It just needs to be dispatched really fast -- there is no physiological evidence for women and men having different needs from congress (our kind, not the American kind), only circumstantial evidence, which is indivisible from the social conditioning that creates it. There is no evidence that women are "more picky" -- there is only evidence that, in some countries, they don't drink as much booze. There is no evidence that women are left more vulnerable when sex doesn't lead to a relationship. There is possibly evidence that they complain more about it, but no gender is immune from rejection.

Who knows, there might well be evidence that men are more likely to propose to women who withhold sex, but Greer's original philosophy was never, I don't think, "do it like I do, and men will like you more". The insult here is not against Greer herself, who can, still being alive, look after herself. It is in the fact that, when you take a crudely analysed "life lesson" and you try and fit it to all womanhood, it is not just neutral chatter. It actively undermines one of the greatest fundamentals of feminism -- that sex can be an act of equality, entered into with equal enthusiasm by people who enjoy it equally.

Without that, we would still be mired in the grim swamp where men are out to trick women into, oops!, accidentally giving them sex, or, failing that, bullying or bribing or blackmailing them into it, until finally, they are not worth the effort and can be swapped for body parts just the same, only younger and better. That was culture for pre-feminist women. That is the effectual enslavement that these mindless, "just show him an ankle, until you've got that ring on your finger" chatterers would have us return to.

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex


NOOOOOOOOOOOO. I vote against it!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Seb wrote:
Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex


NOOOOOOOOOOOO. I vote against it!!!!


LOL Seb. Me too!!

Chastity, OMG, what a stupid thing. Be clean, be safe, don't get pregnant, but for god's sakes, enjoy it!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:03 am 
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Seb wrote:
Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex


NOOOOOOOOOOOO. I vote against it!!!!


My thoughts exactly, Seb. But you know what they say about virgins - that they have a power others do not have. Even way way back into human civilization virgins, for example with the Kelts, men or women, were already granted special status, and some temples, like Vesta in Rome, required only virgins and a lifetime of chastity.

So if the power of virginity can be channelled for a purpose there must something in the "condition" which is different to one of sexual experience. And I don't mean the male-orientated view of the universe but some scientific fact. What changes in a person before and after? People also change when they become parents, so there must be something in the body or mind that is changed from before virginity and after.

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex

"We are vessels and we seek to be filled."


that sounds simply...yucky. :-x


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:20 pm 
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desertrat wrote:
Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex

"We are vessels and we seek to be filled."


that sounds simply...yucky. :-x


Well, I don't know, my bank account could certainly use a serious filling up! That thing's always running on empty!
:-o

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:46 pm 
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Divinia wrote:
desertrat wrote:
Alice wrote:
Gatekeepers of sex

"We are vessels and we seek to be filled."


that sounds simply...yucky. :-x


Well, I don't know, my bank account could certainly use a serious filling up! That thing's always running on empty!
:-o


LOL, Divinia, join the club. :D

But women have been seen as "vessels" throughout history. Symbolically as well as practically, it being a matter of physiology. Bowls, vases, et cetera are seen as female objects. And this is also so in larger descriptions, such as valleys and seas. Women are the symbol of fertility, the mother, the earth, the holy, "those that receive" (and give). And, as I agree with you in that it can sound yucky, it's still true. I suppose it all depends on context.


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:22 am 
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Lily wrote:
I suppose it all depends on context.


defintely ! the idea of the woman as the life-bringing vessel, the bearer of the future - i'm ok with that. but then, just being a vessel for men's lust - NO WAY ! :x


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:01 pm 
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desertrat wrote:
Lily wrote:
I suppose it all depends on context.


defintely ! the idea of the woman as the life-bringing vessel, the bearer of the future - i'm ok with that. but then, just being a vessel for men's lust - NO WAY ! :x


It's ok, hon, when they're in the mood for that, just send them to me. I wouldn't have them any other way.
:grin:

But I hear you. Being an object of lust without any regard to the person you are can be very denigrating and should not be accepted. I remember a couple of "straight" guys who had to pretend they were all macho and married and all that who had to play that game (with me), you know, treat me like a shooting hole and I don't go for that. No bullshit please. You're fucking a guy, you're enjoying it (judging by all the loud noises you're making and the effort you're putting in to it) so don't even try to pretend I'm not a person because you can go stick it somewhere else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:01 pm 
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sadly, there are still many prejudices about women - first and most importantly, that women basically are frigid and don't enjoy sex. instead of trying to find out what their women want to enjoy sex, they just "use" them. i can't understand how anybody wants to have sex with a lifeless body (unless he is a necrophile :D )...


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:03 pm 
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desertrat wrote:
sadly, there are still many prejudices about women - first and most importantly, that women basically are frigid and don't enjoy sex. instead of trying to find out what their women want to enjoy sex, they just "use" them. i can't understand how anybody wants to have sex with a lifeless body (unless he is a necrophile :D )...


Perhaps it's the old Virgin and Slut thing again? And of course, male ego?

As we were discussing elsewhere on the forum, the way the world is seen through the eyes of heterosexual men is changing, at least throughout a portion of the democratic countries. The Western attitude of "everything is debatable" has opened up every area of human development and being, including what it is to be a man, a woman, and sex.

Even the traditionally closed culture of islam has its first television sex therapist in Egypt and it is causing havoc amongst traditional, predominantly male, attitudes. But not only in the muslim world is sex being discussed, other traditional male cultures such as the catholic countries of the Mediterranean like Spain and Italy, questions about sexuality and the role women play in it, are now open for discussion.

Perhaps women are finally coming into the full equality they should have had all along. As a supposedly civilised society how can we really justify attitudes based on physical prowess alone, leaving half of the human equation, not to mention the gay community or all the men that are not physically powerful out of it? We can't and we shouldn't!

Until we start seeing and treating everyone as equal human beings with the right to experience life and love the way they see fit there is no real human development. And to see woman as equal sexual beings is a good place to start.

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:36 pm 
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victor wrote:
Until we start seeing and treating everyone as equal human beings with the right to experience life and love the way they see fit there is no real human development. And to see woman as equal sexual beings is a good place to start.


amen to that, vic. :P

i've recently read an interesting article about women and sex. it seems the whole thing is starting to turn around. nowadays more women than men complain that they don't get enough sex. it seems women are relaxed enough to just enjoy sex, so they can easily have it daily and more, while for men the competition aspect in sex is always present, it is not just for relaxing, so ith the whole pressure of today's world world, men have to cut back in sex....leaving their female partners wanting...


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:14 pm 
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desertrat wrote:
so ith the whole pressure of today's world world, men have to cut back in sex


:?
MEN HAVE TO CUT BACK ON SEX ????
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH....

PANIC PANIC :shock:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........
:spankmehard:

We want more ! :fucking:

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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:46 am 
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i guess they were talking about straight guys there... :grin: :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Women and sex
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:54 am 
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Study Debunks Myth That Women Want Sex Less

By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Staff Writer
19 June 2007 09:08 am ET

Image
Compared with women surveyed, men were more likely to intend to have riskier sex by using alcohol to increase the chances of having sex.

Bachelors might have sex on their minds more than their single female counterparts, but once in a committed relationship, men and women have similar attitudes toward the act, a new study finds.

The results, published in the April issue of the journal Sex Roles, reveal how sexual stereotypes, in which guys want to go for it and gals tend to resist, don"t hold when romantic feelings come into play.

"Men experience a lot of pressure in our society to have sex with a number of different partners," said one of the study"s researchers, Paul Perrin, a graduate student in psychology at the University of Florida, "the opposite of what women experience as kind of the gatekeepers of sexuality."

Past studies, the scientists point out, have shown that compared with women, men are more sexually permissive, endorse casual sex at higher rates and masturbate more often.

And even in dreamland, men are from Mars and women from Venus. A recent study showed men were more than twice as likely as women to report dreams about multiple sex partners.

Sex spin factor

Tom Tiegs of UF and Perrin, along with their colleagues, surveyed 208 women and 131 men in an introductory psychology course there. The students rated 160 statements on a scale ranging from "strongly disagree" to "strongly agree" regarding their sexual behaviors and attitudes. The statements fell into four categories.

In category 1, "sex as personally and physically pleasurable," statements included:

* I should get drunk to enhance my sexual experience.
* If I want to be close to someone, I should have sex.
* I should have sex with my partner so he/she will not leave me.
* I should have sex with as many people as possible.

In category 2, "sex as beneficial in creating positive feelings about oneself," statements included:

* Sex makes my partner love me.
* I feel attractive after sex.
* I trust my partner more after sex.

In category 3, "sex as personally costly in terms of having negative emotional, psychological or physical consequences," statements included:

* Sex makes me feel guilty for violating my morals.
* God will punish me for having sex.
* Having a one-night stand makes me feel cheap.
* I will get an STD by having sex.

In category 4, "sex as a violation of social injunctions," statements included:

* I should engage in premarital sex.
* I should be with my partner a long time before I have sex.
* I should not have sex because I"m too attached to someone I"m having sex with.

Sexual feelings

While women placed more emphasis on the emotional aspects of sex, men focused more on the physical side of sex. Men were much more likely to find sex personally and physically pleasurable, while women were more likely to think sex violates social taboos.

Thoughts often turn into actions. "Sexually restrictive gender roles too often become self-fulfilling prophecies because women know that they are expected to be less sexual than men," the scientists write, "and men know that they are expected to be more sexual than women."

Men gave much higher ratings for risky sexual behaviors, such as "I should have sex with as many people as possible," than women. And women were more apt to endorse waiting longer and not engaging in premarital sex.

When Mr. Right shows up, however, women ditch society-imposed gender roles, warming up to sexual pleasures, the researchers found.

In the context of an intimate relationship, both genders expressed that sex was important as a way to bring couples closer, to help maintain healthy relationships and to increase one"s self confidence.

"People in romantic relationships give more importance to their own feelings and their partners" than they do to social expectations about sexual behavior," Perrin said.

Source: Click here.

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